PODCAST | Listening For Divine Echoes (feat. Tim Ross)

Resources:

Follow Tim Ross on Social Platforms:
Instagram: @upsetthegram
Podcast: https://www.upsettheworld.com/the-basement-with-tim-ross
Website: https://www.upsettheworld.com/

Transcript:

Christa Neidig:
Welcome to the Vanderbloemen Leadership podcast. I'm your host, Christa Neidig, Manager of Marketing and Business Development here at Vanderbloemen. In today's podcast, William Vanderbloemen talks with Tim Ross. Tim is a preacher, author, and host of The Basement podcast.
In this talk, William and Tim talk about the succession that Tim went through and his journey from being the lead pastor at Embassy City and now off to his next calling. During his journey, Tim talks about the importance of listening to the Holy Spirit and divine echoes before making a huge transition decision.
We hope you enjoy this conversation.

William Vanderbloemen:
Well, hello, everybody. Thanks for joining me today. I am with my friend, Tim Ross. And I am so excited for you to get to meet him.
And we're going to dive into a really sticky topic. And it's Monday when we're recording this, so it's even more sticky. You ever have Monday morning where you wake up as a pastor and say, "Is it time for me to step down?" And Monday, if you've been around me any amount of time, Monday we get more calls from people thinking it's time than all six other days combined.

Tim Ross:
Wow.

William Vanderbloemen:
Tim, I used to have a auto voicemail back when it was just me running the thing, way back in the day. I'd set it on Mondays and it'd say, "You know what? Just call me back on Tuesday. Everything's going to be good."

Tim Ross:
That's right. It's true. It's very true. You need another day to sleep.

William Vanderbloemen:
Don't quit on Monday.

Tim Ross:
That's right. Don't quit on Mondays.

William Vanderbloemen:
But there is a way to learn what God's doing so you do know when it's time and you don't hang on too long. And I want to dive into that a little bit.
Before we do that, I get to meet so many great people. And I don't know that everybody knows you, Tim. You've got a ton of people that know you that I don't know. But why don't you just take a minute and give us a little bit of background, let us know a little bit of your story.

Tim Ross:
Absolutely. So my name is Tim Ross. I'm originally from Southern California, Inglewood to be exact. Born and raised there. Gave my life to Jesus in '96. Moved to Texas in '97. And after spending time as a youth evangelist, young adult pastor, associate campus pastor, executive pastor, we were sent to plant a church in 2015. It's a church that I planted for seven years. And December 31st of 2002 was my last day as a lead pastor.
Now, I spend my time as a podcaster and an influencer. And who would've ever thought that?

William Vanderbloemen:
So 2022, right?

Tim Ross:
2022. Yes, sir.

William Vanderbloemen:
Yeah.

Tim Ross:
Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
So it's still pretty fresh.

Tim Ross:
Yes.

William Vanderbloemen:
And we had the pleasure of getting to help your church, Embassy City-

Tim Ross:
Several times.

William Vanderbloemen:
-walk down the road of what that succession would look like, who it would be. I wish I could say that every time we manage a succession and a search, it goes as smoothly as yours did. We were actually, kind of funny, able to find a successor that is also named Tim. So cool.

Tim Ross:
Absolutely.

William Vanderbloemen:
It's like First Timothy and Second Timothy.

Tim Ross:
That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
Which is what happened when Tim Stevens left here to go. The exec pastor at Willow, he raised up a guy from within, also known as Second Timothy, and now he's...

Tim Ross:
Wow. That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. God loves Tims.

William Vanderbloemen:
God loves Tims. That's right.

Tim Ross:
Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
Well, I wonder. When I get a call... And your exec pastor called me at the time and said, "Hey, we're thinking this is what we're going to do, but we're not sure." I just remember saying, "What's really going on?" Why would somebody step down in the middle of a amazing season, prime of life, prime ministry? And I get paid, in some part, to be a little skeptical and say, "Ah, no. What's underneath all this?"
And I guess I was wrong to be skeptical here because your church is doing great. You're doing great. It's early. It's early.

Tim Ross:
Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
Things seem to be going well. So how do you, in the middle of the prime of your life... Walk us through what God did in your heart to make you go, "Yeah. No. I think it's time."

Tim Ross:
Yeah. So I went to school to be a homicide detective. I studied Administration of Justice. So everything in my mind is very picturest, and it's sequential. So you asked me a question like that. I can give it to you in the sequence that it happened.
So back in September of 2021, during our sixth anniversary... This would've been the sixth anniversary of the church that month. The end of the month, we had a friend of mine come speak. And at the end of the message, she asked us to come up on the platform, Juliette and I, at the end of the service in front of everybody. And she just gave an encouraging word over myself, Juliette, and the entire church. And it's one of them words that you hear it, and you're like, "Yeah, I think we're on the right track. God is doing something. This is confirmation."
At the time we were looking for a building. There was a Fry's that had just gone out of business. There was a place less than half a mile down the street from us that went out of business. And so we were looking for new properties. So we thought the word of encouragement that we received had something to do with that growth.
Four days later, I'm in a hotel room at 5:00 AM in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I felt like the Holy Spirit said, "Hey, you need to go listen to that word again." And when I went to go listen to the word again, I promise you I thought it was over dubbed. I thought somebody tinkered with the vocals because I'm like, "I did not hear this four days ago."
Well, in hindsight, William, what I know now is that the word that we received in public was an encoded message. And He decoded the message privately. Because it would've been... I think our guest would have got stoned if they all heard the same thing that I heard at 5:00 AM four days later.
But what I essentially heard, in a nutshell, four days later was, "Your season as a lead pastor was coming to an end."

William Vanderbloemen:
Wow.

Tim Ross:
And I burst into tears. Because I'm like, "Did I do something wrong? Did I strike the rock twice?" I'm going through all of my biblical references and I'm going, "What have I done?"
And that's what set us on a journey over the next year and a half, really. Well, actually over the next year of clarity with God just letting us know, "Hey, your assignment as a lead pastor is coming to an end, and I have something else for you." Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
I grew up Presbyterian, right? And some have people seen this before, but this is the Presbyterian's worshiping. We get a charismatic moment, this is us. That's it. That's all you can get.

Tim Ross:
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
So in Presbyterian church, you come and said, "Well, the Lord spoke to me and told me this and this." I'm going to say, "You sure it wasn't the enchiladas last night?"

Tim Ross:
Absolutely. Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
So how do you discern when it's God speaking and when it's just a bad mood?

Tim Ross:
Yeah, absolutely.

William Vanderbloemen:
What are some things you do to test a word? To make sure that it's something God's saying to you rather than your emotions?

Tim Ross:
Yeah. So the way that I've always classified a confirming word from God is that the other trusted people that are in my life hear the same thing. So I refer to them, William, as divine echoes. The difference between enchiladas and echoes is that if it's enchiladas, only you hear it. If it's echoes, everybody else you love hears it, even if they don't want to.
Right? So for my elders to hear it, for my wife to hear it, for my executive pastor to hear it, for my executive creative director to hear it, for my worship pastor to hear it, for my admin to hear it. Now, they didn't all hear it at the same time. It takes patience. You submit what you feel like you've heard, and you got to trust God's timing in allowing them to hear the same thing.
And so when you're waiting for those echoes, it can take some time. I know it was about three months for my wife to come around to even feel like, "Yeah, this is what we feel like the Lord is saying." When I first told her, her exact words were, "You might as well be telling me to put one of my kids up for adoption."

William Vanderbloemen:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Ross:
She was like, "This cannot be what God's telling us to do." And three months later she was like, "Yeah, our season is coming to an end."

William Vanderbloemen:
What changed?

Tim Ross:
That's one of those works that I can only attribute to God and him moving on the heart and us having continued conversations. We didn't brood in frustration and in silence, throwing prayer jabs at one another. God let her see it. God, I hope he wakes up. We kept talking. As uncomfortable as those conversations were, we kept on talking.
And the more we talked and the more we went through the nuances and the more we shed tears, and the more we were very, very honest with each other, we were in agreement that, man, we have no idea what's next, but we know that this season is coming to an end.
And that was January of '22, that we were in agreement that, you know what? This is the beginning of the end. She thought it was three more years. She wanted to round off at a nice 10. And I actually thought it was going to be this year, 2023. I thought it would be September of this year. And obviously, God's timing isn't ours. And he didn't fulfill her expectations or mine in terms of when we thought it would be. It was actually December 31st of '22.

William Vanderbloemen:
Tim, as you watched for echoes you, or listened for echoes, is I guess is what you'd say.

Tim Ross:
Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
Where did you hear them in the... I'm sure you're looking at this church that God birthed, but he used you, so it's like one of your kids, as your wife said.

Tim Ross:
It is. It is.

William Vanderbloemen:
How are you examining your church to say, "Where do I see evidence of echoes in the church itself and how they might be better served for a new voice?" Does that make sense?

Tim Ross:
Yeah. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. So everybody's scenario and story's going to be different. But for me, one of the things that the Lord made very, very clear to me in 2022 was, "Hey, check your schedule." And at the halfway mark of the year, which would've been... Actually, it really would've been June for us, because I was the guest speaker for the whole month for Gateway, and just showed the video back to our church.
So for the first six months of the year, I had only been in the pulpit, in person for three months. And I felt like what the Lord was sharing with me during that time was, "Hey, I've been weaning them from your voice and you didn't even know it." They're more prepared for this transition than you think. You think they need a year, a year and a half, two years to prepare for this transition. I've been weaning them from your voice and your presence this year, and you didn't even know it. They're going to be okay without you. Which is almost like, "Really?" You know what I mean? You got to check your ego at that point.

William Vanderbloemen:
Right.

Tim Ross:
You're like, "Will they be okay without me?" He's like, "Yeah, they will be okay without you."

William Vanderbloemen:
Yeah, I am going through the same thing here. I try every year I go away a little longer during the summer. I've gone from driving like this as a planter of our business, to driving like this, to in the summer driving like this. And even then, it's let's do the no hands for a little bit.

Tim Ross:
Yeah. Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
And I tell people I'm trying to make myself not essential, and that's become way too easy a task.

Tim Ross:
Yeah, buddy.

William Vanderbloemen:
I wish I were a little more essential, but...

Tim Ross:
They can take it from here. That that's a real statement.

William Vanderbloemen:
They can take it from here. In fact, probably, I don't know how it was at Embassy City, but probably baptisms were up and the giving was good.

Tim Ross:
All of it. All of it. It really was. Yeah.

Christa Neidig:
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William Vanderbloemen:
Well then, so how do you have the conversation with your board or with your people? Walk me through that so that someone who's sitting here today...
And by the way, pardon the interruption. But if you're listening carefully, you heard Tim say his last day was December 31st, 2022. And you heard him say he was talking to his wife about this in January of 2022. So what I don't hear you saying, Tim, is I don't think the Lord calls us to impulsive career moves.

Tim Ross:
Absolutely not.

William Vanderbloemen:
Now, there are times where he says, "Pick up your mat. Go home."

Tim Ross:
That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
Pick up your nets and follow me.

Tim Ross:
Yes.

William Vanderbloemen:
There are moments where that happens, but I don't think when you're serving his church, he's going to call you to an impulsive decision. Would you say that?

Tim Ross:
Not at all.

William Vanderbloemen:
Okay.

Tim Ross:
That is absolutely fair.

William Vanderbloemen:
Okay.

Tim Ross:
Because that wouldn't be fair to the people.

William Vanderbloemen:
That's right.

Tim Ross:
And that wouldn't be stewardship to the people. So I absolutely agree with you.

William Vanderbloemen:
Well, so now you're getting this word. You've got echoes going off all around you. You can see it in the church, you can see it from your wife starting to talk to you. Walk me through the conversation that you had with your board the first time.

Tim Ross:
So this would've been around, I started talking to them early on. So I started sharing this with the board in October of '21. Hey, I don't know what it means yet. I'm just submitting it to you. We still need to pray. Juliette and I are not in agreement yet, so this is not going to be a move that I make tomorrow. But we need to start praying through this. So the earliest conversations were the week that I found out.
But after January, those conversations started to become way more significant. Because it was like, "Okay, if this is really the Lord, who's your successor? And what does the timeline even look like?" When you start off with these conversations, you can only communicate what you know. You don't fill in the blanks. Communicate what you know. Pray about the rest. That's what I say all the time. Communicate what you know. Pray about the rest.

William Vanderbloemen:
That's true.

Tim Ross:
Revisit the conversations month to month. Even if you have to have offline conversations before your formal board meetings. Make sure you have those conversations. But keep reiterating that, "Hey. I just know what I know. And we're not going to make a move until we're all in agreement." That's where God puts the oil, right? He puts it on unity according to Psalms, right?
So I'm always thinking about over communicating. Here is where I am. I'm going to say it again. I don't want there to be any skepticism. I don't want there to be any squinting of the eyes. I want everybody to be on the same page. And so, January, February, March, we started having those conversations.
And then there's a young man that I had been mentoring for three and a half years named Tim. And I felt like... He's a great preacher, but I had never... He was just my mentee. He had never come to preach at Embassy City before. And I felt like the Holy Spirit said, "Bring him and have him preach." And so I brought him in. And I felt like God said, "Hey, pay attention to him." I'm like, "Okay."
So he preaches his message. I hear it. I hear it later on in the week. He's sound theologically, right? A preacher is a preacher is a preacher. He's a good preacher. What I picked up on listening to him was how much our congregation laughed. I use so much humor in my messages. I used to be a standup comic, so I use a lot of humor in messages, actually use the humor to open people's hearts up so that the truth goes down easier. Spoonful of sugar.
So I heard the congregation laughing during his message, and I never heard the congregation laugh like that unless it was me. And that's what piqued my interest.

William Vanderbloemen:
Interesting.

Tim Ross:
And so I kept that to myself. I didn't bring that to the elders. I didn't bring that to my wife. And within two and a half weeks, Juliette, unsolicited, unprovoked, just walks up to me and says, "Hey, babe. I don't know what God wants to do. But if God chose Tim to be our successor, he and his wife Janese, I would be more than pleased." And I was shocked.

William Vanderbloemen:
Wow.

Tim Ross:
Because my wife was still grieving. We were both grieving what was coming, even though we didn't even have dates and all this kind of stuff yet. And man, I tell you when she said that, I went, "Well, it's interesting you say that because I felt like God put him in my heart when we had him to come to preach." And she goes, "Well, that's him."

William Vanderbloemen:
Well, what I love about this story, and I know the other side of it, is you didn't do that impulsively either. And I'll fast-forward the story a little bit. But you listened for echoes. You treated the bride like a bride.

Tim Ross:
Yes, sir.

William Vanderbloemen:
And what do they say? Measure twice, cut once.

Tim Ross:
That's right. That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
This sounds like a commercial, but a lot of people feel like a failure if they don't raise up their own successor. Well, that's just not how the church has worked. Is Jesus' [inaudible 00:20:28].

Tim Ross:
No,

William Vanderbloemen:
It's not. If you're multi-site, not one church, many locations, it's one kingdom many locations.

Tim Ross:
Correct. That's correct. Yes.

William Vanderbloemen:
And so there are laborers that you don't know about that you are related to.

Tim Ross:
That's correct. That's correct.

William Vanderbloemen:
And you guys came to us and said, "Let's look everywhere. Let's turn over every rock. Make sure this is right." And it appeared to us to be an echo. And time will tell. I guess we'll do a podcast in 10 years to see how it all went.

Tim Ross:
That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
I love the balance of listening for the Holy Spirit's voice and then testing that witness against others, against [inaudible 00:21:13].

Tim Ross:
Yes, sir.

William Vanderbloemen:
Far too often I get people call me and they're impulsive. And then sometimes I get people that won't call me because they feel embarrassed. I'm letting Jesus down if I leave.

Tim Ross:
Oh. Oh, man. Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
I did a little bit of that when I was a pastor. Man, what's going to happen if I...? Well, guess what? I'm not very essential around here.

Tim Ross:
That's right. It's so true.

William Vanderbloemen:
Well, I could go on for hours and hours with you about this and maybe we'll have you back later on to talk. Maybe the three of us could talk, Second Timothy.

Tim Ross:
Yeah, that would be amazing because he's brilliant.

William Vanderbloemen:
That would be really cool. But today I wanted to just park for a minute and say, "If you're feeling like it's time to go, start to listen for echoes."

Tim Ross:
That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
The one thing is so interesting to me, Tim, the things God brings to my mind when I do this job versus when I was a pastor. And one thing that I just can't shake is I never realized why Jesus got in trouble with his friends. Not Pharisees and Sadducees, but why did he get in trouble with his friends? And best I can tell, the most common reason he got in trouble was he was always moving on.

Tim Ross:
Wow.

William Vanderbloemen:
He went from town to town and village to village. No. Why can't we stay? Nope. We got to go.

Tim Ross:
Wow.

William Vanderbloemen:
Nope. We got to go.

Tim Ross:
Wow. Yeah.

William Vanderbloemen:
And somehow I missed that when I was a pastor. I thought, "No, I got to stay."

Tim Ross:
Right.

William Vanderbloemen:
Maybe. Maybe. But maybe not.

Tim Ross:
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

William Vanderbloemen:
I just encourage you all to follow Tim Ross. We're going to put all your social media stuff in the show notes.

Tim Ross:
No worries.

William Vanderbloemen:
You'll get to laugh. And you'll be surprised how much God uses Tim to speak into your life. And I hope that today has been a moment where you might stop and check and say, "Is there an encoded message that needs some decoding?" And I'm going to pray that you know exactly the right time to leave.
I've seen a lot of people start well. I've seen some people finish well. I've seen very few do both. And it's such a joy to see how you've done that well, Tim. I can see it in Embassy City. I can see it in your current life and work.
And I thank you for making time to be with us today.

Tim Ross:
Very honored to be with you, William. Thank you.

William Vanderbloemen:
Thanks, Tim. And you all tune in next week. We'll be talking to another great leader and trying to learn from them as we figure out how to help the church go farther and faster.

Christa Neidig:
Thanks for listening to the Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast. At Vanderbloemen, we help Christian organizations build their best teams through hiring, succession, compensation, and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, vanderbloemen.com to learn more and subscribe to our Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts to keep up with our newest episodes.
Thanks for listening.