PODCAST | Unlocking Your Capacity To Change The World (feat. Greg Atkinson)

Resources:

To connect with Greg: https://gregatkinson.com/

Get a copy of Greg’s new book at secretpowerofkindness.com

Follow Greg on Social Media Platforms: https://www.instagram.com/gregatkinson/

Transcript:

Christa Neidig:

Welcome to the Vanderblomen Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Christa Neidig, manager of Marketing and Business Development here at Vanderbloemen. And today's podcast, our account manager, Carey Sumner, talks with Greg Atkinson. Greg is the founder and CEO of Worship Impressions, the first impressions conference, as well as the co-founder of the Social Media Church conference. Greg is an entrepreneur, bestselling author, speaker, coach, and consultant. Greg joins the podcast to emphasize the secret power of kindness. He shares that it's time for this overlooked and underappreciated fruit of the spirit to get its due. His message serves as a reminder of our responsibility in building a world full of kindness. We hope you enjoy this conversation.

Carey Sumner:

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast. My name's Carey. I'm on the client relations team here at Vanderbloemen, and we are excited to welcome Greg Atkinson onto the show today. Uh, Greg and I were just talking, this is his actual third appearance, so he's becoming a regular on the show with us here. But in case you don't know Greg, uh, he's the founder and CEO of Worship Impressions and the First Impressions conference and the entrepreneurial church conference, which is coming, uh, in this year, as well as the co-founder of the Social Media Church conference. And so Greg has been helping the church, helping church leaders for three decades now, and we're just so excited to have him on sharing with us a little bit today. Greg, welcome. Thank you for being here again.

Greg Atkinson:

Hey, thank you for having me. Honored to be back.

Carey Sumner:

Yes, I, I love the background you have there if you're listening and you can't see his background, hustle, grind and execution, uh, spoken from someone who truly is about getting some things done for the kingdom. So love to see that. Well, Greg, you've been helping the Kingdom of God, uh, for three decades now. And so as we kind of kick off and get started, you started in the worship world. And so I, I would love to hear maybe from you just a little bit, uh, how have you seen the worship movement evolve in the Western Church over these past three decades, uh, of helping the church and build in the kingdom?

Greg Atkinson:

Yeah, well, specifically in worship, I saw it change a ton. You know, when I first started, we were, uh, using, um, slide projectors and, uh, overheads and, um, hymnals and singing hymns with piano and organ. And I directed a choir. I directed an orchestra. And, um, I had to introduce, and this is in the, um, early nineties, I had to introduce multimedia, uh, getting the church's first ever, um, projector and, uh, starting PowerPoint and doing slides for the first time and things that, uh, you know, nobody knew what PowerPoint was. And, um, I ended up picking it up very quickly. And that's how I first got it. Started speaking at conferences in 2000. I've been speaking for 23 years, but I started out teaching churches how to use media and specifically how to use PowerPoint. 'cause a lot of pastors were wanting to use PowerPoint for their sermons, but they didn't know how to do it. And so I also went through in the, the worship wars and introducing drums into a Baptist church, which was a big deal. Starting Arai again, all these first, you're

Carey Sumner:

Still here with us after all of that. Yeah,

Greg Atkinson:

I'm still here. I'm still, I'm still around. But it was, it was a lot of first, uh, first time doing this, this, this, this. And so I, I introduced things on the visual media side, and then I introduced new instruments from drums to percussion to guitar to bass, and all this stuff that was different from a piano and a organ. And, uh, so just a whole lot of firsts. And, um, it was, uh, a lot of experimenting in the early nineties and, um, trying things for the first time, trying to push things forward. That was a big push towards blended worship, if you remember that. And people were, um, trying to mix in some worship courses along with the hymns. And then in 2023 years ago, um, I actually was talking about it today because I, I have recently moved back to North Carolina, but I lived in North Carolina in 2000, and I came to be at a fully contemporary church where it was all praise and worship and all band driven, uh, no choir for the first time.

And so when I went for my license today, she showed me my license picture from 2000 and what I looked like 23 years ago. And I was like, wow. And my daughter was born that year, and she just graduated college, and I'm moving her into grad school tomorrow. I have to drive to Virginia Tech to move her into her new apartment. So a lot has changed since I last lived in North Carolina, and last had a North Carolina license. But, um, but that was a big change for me professionally. 'cause in 2000 is when I left behind, uh, traditional music. I left behind blended music, I behind choir and orchestra, and I went full steam ahead with what was called contemporary worship with, uh, a band driven approach. And, um, started to lead every single week from guitar back at my, uh, previous church in the nineties where I did blended worship.

I would just play guitar on Sunday night because, you know, you can get away with a lot of stuff on a Sunday night at a, at a more traditional church <laugh>. It was more forgiving on a Sunday night because just the core and faithful came back out. So it went, I went through a lot in those years and I've seen a lot of changes. And now the things that people are doing in, um, in worship are, um, have come a long way. Um, I was just visiting a church this past Sunday, and they were doing the, at the movie series, and there was a giant, uh, storm troopers walking around and giant Star Wars machines, and it was, um, it was neat to see just how far things have come.

Carey Sumner:

Yeah, that's awesome. I I, you know, as you recount some of that, I imagine there's some pastors listening right now that they just had some bad flashbacks, right. Uh, some who were thinking, Hey, I wanted to never think about that again. But I, I think it's amazing for us to sometimes take that bigger picture view. You know, we can get so caught in the moment of just what's happening right now, and just not realize how much God has done in those past 30 years. Right. How, how much our world has changed. And we talk about this from a culture standpoint and from a technology standpoint, but even in the church, how that's permeated in these past 30 years and really to help reach people, right? Like, like those changes aren't all happening just because it's someone's preference, but an understanding of, hey, how do we engage the culture of the time?

And, you know, I think about Jesus and his parables. He's using parables that connect with his audience in that timeframe. And so, uh, I know for me, growing up in this age and, and being a pastor o over these years, it's been awesome to see us be willing to experiment, willing to try new things, to be able to go after people's hearts so that they get to know the Lord. Absolutely. With that, what are some of the things that, you get to work with all kinds of churches now. Uh, what are some of the things you're seeing in the Big C Church right now that you just love some of those experimentations you just talked about, uh, at the movies type of stuff, and, and kind of some of that out of the box. What are some things you're seeing that, uh, maybe even you've only seen it once, but this is a great opportunity to spread it so more people get some exposure?

Greg Atkinson:

Yeah, so for the last eight years, I have left, uh, being on a local church staff, even though I still volunteer and help at my local church, but I, um, have been running my own consulting company for the last eight years. I actually started consulting in 2005, 18 years ago, but I've been full-time with it for eight years. And so I see a lot as I travel. And what I have noticed, uh, as you talk about what's changed is post covid, post 2020, uh, QR codes have come back and there's, there's a big push to, uh, people, you know, during 2020, uh, did not want to print things. They didn't want to hand out things. They didn't want anybody touching things. So QR codes came raging back and people were still using QR codes for digital connection cards and announcements and, um, go sign up here and all the stuff that you can do just by pointing your phone at a QR code.

I watch a lot of churches each week on YouTube just to keep up with them. And when they're doing announcements, they'll have a QR code lower third come up on the screen. I was watching, um, the Belonging Code in Nashville recently, and they had QR code come up and they were saying, you know, go here to register, or if you're a first time guest, we wanna welcome you. Fill this out. And the QR code is up there as they're speaking, and it's so easy, you know, as I'm sitting in my recliner at home to point to the TV and, uh, open that up, uh, as I, as I go back and watch them. But, um, there's also been a, a push for, uh, more engagement, uh, not just digitally, but just in-person engagement and, uh, a big push for community. You know, when we got isolated, when we were shut down, when we couldn't go out during the 2020, 2021 years, um, people realize they really miss community.

They miss fellowship, they miss hanging out with people. And so now there's a, um, we, you know, we host small group here in my home. Uh, we have people here at my house, uh, for small group, but people miss fellowshipping and hanging out and breaking bread and eating together. And so, um, so there's been a, a huge revival of small group ministry, um, along with using digital technology like a QR code or something like that to help people engage. And so, um, some really things that I think are positive that I've seen happen over the last few years,

Carey Sumner:

That's great. I la and I love that the blending of the digital world with the in-person world. I, uh, I was an executive pastor at a church kind of through covid and helping navigate through all of that. And once we kind of got on the backside, it was almost like we got into another worship wars of can you do online worship? And should you keep doing it even though it's not covid and, and, you know, gotta be in person or you gotta allow online. I love the idea that we can have both, right? That, that no one today lives a completely isolated world away from technology, and no one lives completely isolated away from other people. It at least it's not healthy for us to do that. And so the ability for us to merge those together. And so, you know, if you're a pastor out there listening, like, I would just encourage you, what are the ways God would be calling you to kinda leverage the technology available? And that doesn't mean you gotta go full digital on everything, but what is it that you can take and blend and mix together? So, love that, love that insight, Greg. <silence>

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Carey Sumner:

Uh, Greg, one of the things you do is secret shopper. Uh, and I love this, uh, but some people may not know what Secret, secret shopper is. So talk to us a little bit about just when you do secret shopper, what that is, uh, and then maybe give us, if you have a fun story that you would wanna share about one of your times doing secret shopper for churches.

Greg Atkinson:

Yeah. So, you know, the secret shopper concept originated in the business world. A lot of people are familiar or aware that, that places like banks and restaurants and hotels get secret shopped, um, stores in the mall, department stores, they all get secret shop where somebody comes in, pretends to be a customer, pretends to buy something or actually buy something or actually orders a dinner at a restaurant. I've done that, I secret shop in the business world, but they, they order something and then they evaluate the experience of how was I treated, what was the customer service like, did they welcome me? Did they greet me? Did they say goodbye when I left the restaurant? All these things that we looked for. And then I'd do the same thing in the church world, and I was not the first one. Um, there was some guys doing secret shopper before me, I just kind of made it more known after writing a book on secret shopping.

And so I started secret shopping specifically, like I mentioned, I started consulting in 2005, but 2009 is when I started my secret shopper company Worship Impressions. And we've worked with over 200 churches. Uh, and that's just me going in to visit a church. So I've seen a lot of churches and, um, I said on one podcast, I'm a professional at getting lost, you know, just being able to, to go in and not know where I am or where anything is. This church I visited this past Sunday, it took me a little bit to find the auditorium. I was walking around and looking, trying to help myself and see if I could find where the auditorium was. Like I said, they had all the, at the movies stuff up. And so the, the lobby was decorated differently, and there was a lot of stuff in the way that, uh, made it difficult for me to see clearly where the auditorium was.

But, um, but it is fun to go in. I primarily work with probably 90% of the time the executive pastor, he's the one that contacts me. He's the only one that knows I'm coming. He's the one that arranges everything. Sometimes the other 10%, it's the senior pastor who would just personally reach out and say, Hey, Greg, we want you to come in and I don't want anybody to know. And so the whole emphasis is that it's a secret that's a secret shopper. And so you don't want your worship pastor to know, because he'll put up his best singers, his 18 pick his best songs. And so <laugh>, you know, you don't, you don't want anybody to know you're coming, but, um, yeah. But, but, but the book, I mentioned Secrets of a Secret Shopper. I wrote so that smaller churches could secret shop their own church and wouldn't have to hire an outside consultant because it's very expensive.

And so if, if it sounds intimidating, the thought of hiring a consultant, especially in a post covid world where churches may be struggling with budget, um, then you could just read through the book quickly and kind of do your own. That was kind of the intent behind it. But there's been a lot of interesting things that have happened. Because I'm a secret shopper. I also check security, so I've gone places where I shouldn't go. And I've tried to get into children's ministry and go down halls I shouldn't go down. And I have been, um, nearly arrested, nearly taped. That's great though. That's great. <laugh>. Yeah, I've been background checked, uh, from somebody that had me fill out like a, a guest form. And then I went to lunch after the service with the executive pastor, and he said, I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but they ran a background check on you <laugh>.

But, um, it's just been, uh, it's been interesting. I am, uh, I'm good at intentionally getting lost and going down the wrong haul and trying to see where I can get and if I can get away. And you would be surprised the amount of times where I have told a pastor or executive pastor where I was and what I saw, and their face turned white. They just couldn't believe that I was able to get so close to their children. Um, and, um, if I can do it, there's people a lot more,  with bad intentions that can do it. And so, um, they made changes after my evaluation, after my report. Uh, and it's like a hundred page report. It's a very detailed report, but when I go over that, uh, we meet via Zoom when I fly back and we go through, um, the report and they, and I give 'em action steps and they, um, they fix that.

And so they put up, uh, things in place that, that allow you to not be able to get where you shouldn't be able to get. And so it's helped a lot of churches. There's been some great churches that, um, were knocking at it out of the park when it came to preaching and music. I can name a church right now that is one of the fastest growing churches in the country with a well-known preacher and well-known worship leader, but their security was lacking. And so, uh, it just allows them to shore up every area, every area, and, um, get to where they need to be to protect the people who are entrusting them with their kids.

Carey Sumner:

That's great. That's great. And so, just an encouragement for our pastors out there, that, that, that's a huge part of what we do, is just being able to understand, hey, what's happening in our own church? And, uh, for, I, I know being on staff and having preaching responsibilities, it's hard to do all that when you're preaching. Uh, and, and so even to, to have some people on your team having those fresh new eyes come in, that's great. That's great. Well, you mentioned that you had a book on that, but you also have a new book coming out. So let's spend some time talk about, uh, your new book. It's coming out, the Secret Power of Kindness. And, and, uh, here's, uh, just a little snippet. Uh, the secret Power of Kindness is the self-awareness to know that you have the power to make or break someone else's day and eventually change the world. Kindness has no hidden agenda or strings attached. Its only purpose is to express love to another soul made in the image of God. Man, I love that. And as someone who travels and you get into t s a lines and, and just smile, right? And say hello to 'em, it makes such a difference. Talk to us a little bit about the secret power of kindness, why you wrote this book, what you're hoping that God will do with it.

Greg Atkinson:

Yeah. And by the way, it's out right now. You can go get it today. It is, it is released. It's out. It's been doing great. It was, uh, number one bestseller, number one new release for six, seven weeks. But, um, it is, it is out there. And the response has been great. I've got testimonies from grown women that cried when they read my story in the first chapter. Grown Men that Cried when they read my story in the first chapter. I've heard from counselors and therapists that said they were gonna recommend it at their, to all their clients. Um, 'cause I dive into, um, uh, my story of abuse and trauma and, um, church hurt and, uh, family wounds and things that I've gone through. And so it's been, um, by the way, there's a totally free you version devotional that goes along with it also called The Secret Power of Kindness.

So if you want to just test the waters and read through it and see what you think for free, it's just like, there's 10 chapters in the book. It's a 10 day devotional, so you can totally read that and see if you're interested in it. But that, uh, snip snippet that you read, uh, there at the beginning about how we have the power to make or break somebody else's day, and its only purpose is to express love to another soul made in the image of God. I wrote that at 12:30 AM I just woke up and I had this thought in my mind of this is how I wanna describe the secret power of kindness. And so I woke up at 1230, wrote it down on my phone in the notes app, and then the next day carried it over to my manuscript. But, um, it's been amazing to see the response.

I had been working on this, I first wrote the book proposal four years ago. Oh, wow. So it's been a, it's been a journey. And, um, I partnered with an old 20 year friend of mine who has, uh, a newer publishing company, and he wanted to have me go all in on this fruit of the spirit, this little talked about fruit of the spirit of kindness. And, um, he actually flew to my house, met with me in person, and he is, uh, he had read the proposal, I wrote, it was a different name at the time. And he said, Greg, I think you've got a whole book on the power of kindness. Let's go all in on kindness. And, um, the response has been amazing because I have had the opportunity here where I live in Charlotte to talk with several people about, um, the, uh, the book.

And they're not Christian. They're not Christian at all. Uh, I would meet somebody, a nurse, a doctor, a chiropractor, somebody out in the community, a business leader, and I would mention that I had a new book coming out on kindness. And he said, all right on, I would love to read that. That's awesome. And so I have had the opportunity to give multiple copies of my book to business leaders in the community and family members that are not believers, and they all want to read it because, um, one, they're just being kind towards me, but two, they're, they're all about kindness. Everybody can get behind that, whether you're Christian or non-Christian. People think, you know what? This world does need more kindness. This world would be a better place if we had more kindness. And so there have been a lot of people with no faith background or a different faith background, and a ton of Christians that have read the book and reviewed the book and got something out of it where they realized that we do have the opportunity together, me and you to change the world.

Carey Sumner:

Yeah, that's great. That's great. You know, you talk about just some of the different experiences you had in life and things like church hurt and all of that. Man, maybe let's take it back. Why is it that you think we get out of a kindness cycle? I, I mean, especially as Christians, we've had the est thing that could ever happen to us happen in the redemption of Jesus connecting us to our Heavenly Father.

Greg Atkinson:

Man, that's a great question. I, I, you know, I wish I knew the exact reason because this is something that has plagued us as a civilization for years and years and years, decades and decades. Uh, like there's some quotes, uh, that I put at the beginning of the book that have been around for a long time, not just modern people like Brene Brown, but I quoted Blaze Pascal, like these, these, this is something we've wrestled with for a long, long time. You know, growing up, uh, as a child, I remember watching Fred Rogers on the Mr. Rogers show, and he was promoting kindness, and he was championing kindness. And he was that voice in our life of here's how you treat people. And I actually referenced him in the book. And so this is something that we have been trying to, and, and I mean just the greater community pe of people have been trying to get the message across for a long time.

But what I wrote about in the book is there's really a call and a challenge to Christians of, Hey, we may have dropped the ball and we need to be leading the charge when it comes to cri to kindness, because it is a fruit of the spirit, which means it's a mark of a Christ follower. So if we as Christ followers are not known for kindness, we've dropped the ball. So in the book, and this was in the original, um, proposal four years ago, I wrote about Keanu Reeves, who is an atheist, has no faith background whatsoever, but he's known for kindness and for acts of kindness and for how he treats his fans. And there's a lot of people that think Keanu Reeves is the kindness man alive because of how he treats, um, his fans, how he uses his fame, how he helps people.

And he's absolutely an atheist, no faith background whatsoever. And so my my point that I mentioned in the book is one, anybody can be kind Christian or no Christian, but especially the Christian, we should be marked by this. We should be known by this. And, uh, what I've talked about, um, as I've been doing a lot of interviews like this, is that, uh, the goal is to spend time with Christ Daily, to have a, a re a relationship with Christ, to have a devotional life and to do what the Bible calls John 15 abiding in Christ. And the more we abide with Christ, the more we spend time with Christ, the more we become like Christ. So that, um, as Rick Warren says, when the toothpaste is squeezed, whatever is in you is what comes out. I mentioned that in the book. So, uh, when the tough times come, when the surprises, when the guy cuts you off in traffic, like you said, when you have a bad experience in the t s a line, which I'm very familiar with, <laugh>, when

Carey Sumner:

Something

Greg Atkinson:

Comes out of nowhere, what is in you is what comes out. And the more you spend time with Christ, the more you abide in Christ, the more you will become like him. So that when you get squeezed, the fruit of the spirit naturally comes out. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, all that is what naturally comes out because you have been made more like Christ. And so it's just kind of a call to, um, um, to get back to the basics of Christianity. I had a pastor who wrote an endorsement of this is what the early church was known for, this is how we changed the world in the first century. And, uh, it's getting back to what we were and should be known for.

Carey Sumner:

Yeah, that's great. And I love just that sense of, it is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, right? It's not the fruit of Greg or the fruit of Kerry. If I'm trying to produce that just in and of myself, there's gonna be an emptiness that comes from that. But when, when we are spending time with Christ, like you said, when, when we're becoming more Christ-like because we've been with him, it gets produced naturally. I don't have a striving towards it, but I have a being accountance about me. So that's awesome. So thankful that you have taken the time really with the Lord to, to really craft this book, the Secret Power of Kindness, and really help us, uh, as Christians recapture this fruit, right? That that is indicative of who we are, of who our savior is. So love that we would encourage you guys go get a copy of Greg's book, the Secret Power of Kindness, as he said, it is out everywhere Now, Greg, uh, as we close up here, if people want to follow you, get in contact with you, uh, just just know more about the Greg Atkinson contribution to the kingdom.

How can they go about doing that?

Greg Atkinson:

Oh, I love the way you said that. I've never heard that before. That, uh, the Greg Atkinson contribution to the Kingdom. That's awesome. Uh, 2, 2, 2 simple websites that you can remember. One, the quickest way to find the book is secret power kindness.com, just the title. However, if you were to forget, forget that. If you just remember my name, Greg atkinson, greg atkinson.com is my email. I mean greg@gregatkinson.com is my email. But greg atkinson.com has everything. So if you go to my name greg atkinson.com, and it's a T with a T as in tom greg atkinson.com, you will find links to all my social media so you can connect with me online. You'll also find, uh, links to the book and to my email and to the secret power of kindness. And so there's resources there, there's social media links, and you can find out more about what I'm doing these days.

I am working, and I know this would apply to your audience. I'm working with organizations on team culture and creating more of a kind culture as opposed to a toxic culture, which I've unfortunately experienced in the past. And so, uh, this was an idea given to me five years ago by, um, or maybe four years ago by Eagle Brooks Church in Minneapolis. I had met with one of their executive team members and he said, Greg, you go in and do these secret shoppers on the weekend, why don't you stay over during the week and work with their staff on helping them to be a more hospitable and kind staff? And so that's what I'm doing now organizationally as working with team culture. But you can find out all about me, the secret shopper thing, everything on greg atkinson.com.

Carey Sumner:

Awesome. Awesome. Well, Greg, thank you for being here and being a part of the Vanderbloemen and Leadership community. And for all of you guys listening, thank you for taking the time. We are praying for you guys. We believe, uh, that as leaders of the kingdom out there, you guys are making a big impact. And we wanna just encourage you fan that flame, go share Jesus with some people, uh, and, and let's see the kingdom get bigger together. Amen.

Greg Atkinson:

Amen.

Carey Sumner:

Alright, thanks Greg.

Greg Atkinson:

Thank you for having me.

Christa Neidig:

Thanks for listening to the vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast. At vanderbloemen, we help Christian organizations build their best teams through hiring, succession, compensation and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, vanderbloemen.com to learn more and subscribe to our Vanderbloemen leadership podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, to keep up with our newest episodes. Thanks for listening.