PODCAST | How to Manage Change (Feat. John Staub)

Resources:

https://remodelhealth.com/

Transcript:

Christa Reinhardt:
Welcome to the Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Christa Reinhardt, senior marketing coordinator here at Vanderbloemen. In today's podcast, our VP of marketing, Michael Buckingham, talked with John Staub, brand development manager for Remodel Health. In this conversation, they discuss all things change. The effects of change, leading through change, dealing with burnout, and overall tips for managing change. John offers tangible ways for coping with change, and how you can lead your team well, by focusing on your, "Why." We hope you enjoy this conversation.

Michael Buckingham:
I am excited today to be talking to John Staub, from Remodel Health. We're not even going to talk about insurance, though we may venture down that road a little bit. What we really want to talk to you today about, is change. We live in a world that is constantly changing, and over the last couple of years, that's been even more. The Great Resignation, people have changed jobs, people have changed how they work. People are now working at home. Some people have been working at home, but now, they're having to come into the office. There's a lot of change. Change is inevitable. It's going to happen, but that doesn't make it easy. I wanted to talk to John today, about, what are some ways to manage change, to maybe cope with change. How do you adjust in the right directions, without over adjusting to make it a poor experience overall? John, talk to me about that. What have you seen change over the last couple of years, and what are some ways that we can manage that change?

John Staub:
Yeah, thanks. We've seen two phases of big change right now, particularly related to 2020, and everything we saw go on there. One of the first things was, we all had to change the way that we worked, and now, maybe change it back. Everything in between there, there's just so many things, and people, and places, and software, and all that. One of the things I recommend to people right away, when we're discussing change, is first, do a self-evaluation of, how am I doing with change right now? What are the ways that I have done change well in myself, ways that change is still painful for me? Because I think, as we lead others through change, in whatever that might be. A new process, or a new employee, or whatever. Empathizing with them, that we are all changing together, is really important.

John Staub:
For me, I know that ensuring I was thoughtful with my routine, built around the priorities that I needed, whether that might be eating better food, or spending more time reading. Ensuring that I was going through the process of change, and not just leaving change as well.

Michael Buckingham:
That's good. I think the other thing that this has brought about, that I think, maybe it's just highlighted, but it's new in the fact that, change isn't necessarily permanent. And, if you're not careful, you rest too much on that change, and it doesn't make you nimble. Look at Peloton. The huge change, we can't go to the gym, so everyone's buying Pelotons. They're like, "Look, we finally hit it. People finally figured out we're awesome." People start going back to the gyms, and Pelotons aren't selling anymore. Look at Netflix.

John Staub:
Yeah.

Michael Buckingham:
Everyone's watching Netflix, because they're working from home. Not sure exactly how that works.

John Staub:
We're not all at home watching TV.

Michael Buckingham:
Wait a minute. All the educational shows, I'm sure. Obviously, there's some things along the way. Netflix did stop allowing people to share passwords, not that anyone does that either, but. Now, they see their subscribers...Amazon was down. People aren't at home shopping as much anymore. It's very interesting. I think you also have to make sure that you're still nimble, and understand that change might not be permanent. A very real thing that we're seeing is, people are being called back into the office, and that's been hard. I've even seen that begin to reignite The Great Resignation, but also, I just talked about in a conference just last week, the great, "I'm just not even applying. I'm going to be a contractor. I like working from home." There's a lot of things of that sort. How do you stay nimble in the mix of a change like that?

John Staub:
Yeah. The most powerful thing about change, in my opinion, is not so much the change itself. Obviously, the positive impact on what your mission is as an organization, that's great.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
What change does is, it shakes things up in a way that what really matters is highlighted.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
Particularly where I'm at right now, we're a tech company, and we have the ability to really just continue moving forward in a lot of ways, but virtually. Another huge value of our team is connection with each other, as we continue to grow and serve.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
As we stepped back into being in person, there was this big question of, "Why are we here? If we were successful outside of being in person, why are we in person?" That was a great thing for leadership to work through. The answer though, landed on, "We do well in relationships." If you're being intentional with whatever you've chosen to do...perhaps there are some companies, and organizations, and churches, and schools that have said, "We actually are going to really lean into permanently virtual." That's going to work for some, it's not going to work for all, but certainly, the things that you need to highlight as being intentional with relationships.

John Staub:
If you're expecting people to come back, and be in offices, and sit in boardrooms again, how are you being intentional with the relationships around it? Again, we are all people, and making sure that those intentional connections are being made. That's what I love about change.

Michael Buckingham:
That's so strong. For me, I just went through a change. We lived in Atlanta for 10 years. We had a whole move to Houston, a new job, new everything. To be honest with you, in the beginning, it was a little painful, because I was comparing a few weeks, or a couple of months, to 10 years. We knew our favorite restaurants, we knew our favorite spots, all of our haunts, things of that sort. But, we had to realize, "Let's focus. Let's flip that around. Let's focus on the new that we've been given," and we've been able to enjoy it. One of the very simplest things that we did was, we got bikes. Now, we're biking around our neighborhood. Now, we're getting to know our neighborhood.

Michael Buckingham:
Of course, our pool also opened. That was a nice little perk. It's very easy, I think in change, in focusing on what you've lost. There are things that we lost by moving from Atlanta to Houston, but there's so much that we gained, as well. We can make a decision that we either can spend time focusing on the losses, and there needs to be probably a time of mourning for that, right? A time for saying, "We lost some things," but man, there's so much more joy. I just posted on Instagram, I found so much more joy in happiness, in focusing on what we've gained.

Michael Buckingham:
I was just riding bikes with my family, just last night. We were at the park, and playing around, and we're laughing. I paused. I'm like, "I'm laughing." I recognized that I laughed. I'm like, "We're experiencing the joy now, because we're focused on what we've gained, and not so much what we've lost." Any thoughts on that?

John Staub:
Yeah. I'm a big family guy. Anyone that knows me knows that I love my family more than my job, and more than my friends. I'm okay with that, I'm that guy.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
But, the mission of my family is to have a family that is close, and that loves each other, and supports it. That environment is not contingent on what I'm doing.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
Certainly, there are certain things I can do. The "What" that I do can impact this big mission of my family being close. Right now, I've got younger kiddos, and eventually, they're going to be older kiddos, and eventually, they're going to be adults. What I do will change over the course of time, on where I'm at. But, my mission as a family to stay close, and to care for each other, and support each other, that doesn't have to change. As we apply that organizationally, I think, figuring out what is your big "why," your mission as an organization, that helps to lead you through change in a really good way. To know what change is okay, what change shouldn't change along the way. The "why" is the most important thing that anyone can focus on, because it lets you celebrate the wins, instead of focusing on what you've lost.

Michael Buckingham:
That's so good. And then, you've decided. Now, you have laid the foundation of, "This is what's going to matter." There aren't outside forces that are telling you, "Nope, this matters. This matters." It's that foundation that you've built. That's really good. Obviously, as we talk about change, let's be real. One of the big things we don't necessarily want to change is, the good players on our team. We don't want to lose people. I think, what we really recognized over the last couple of years...again, the pandemic didn't necessarily cause things, but boy, it really made that speed to market much quicker. I think it's put some things in place, now, that would've would've happened anyway, but it's really highlighted some things. I think, one of the big things is the health of our employees, of "Hey, how are they doing? How are they feeling? Do they feel valued?"

Michael Buckingham:
Talk to me a little bit about the health, and even the joy, the enjoyment of their job, that you've seen be becoming even more important today, than, I think, it was before.

John Staub:
Yeah. When we're in a routine, that's a very good thing. Routines can give us momentum and trajectory, without a ton of exerted effort. But, when all of a sudden, the routine stops, maybe there is a full stand still, and you're going to move forward again, that takes a lot of extra energy. It does tell you how full your tank is. I do think that, at these moments of change, these moments of pause that we've experienced over the last 24 months, now we're seeing the results of that pause. Pastor Craig Groeschel always says, "There's more than just two ways of looking at things," but I'm a simple guy. I try to just break it down into two things. You certainly have the people in ministry that realize, because the momentum stopped, that they actually have been burned out for a little bit, and they need to take a break. It's good for them to take a break.

Michael Buckingham:
Yep.

John Staub:
But, there's other people that are realizing, "This really is what I want to do, but how am I going to do this? Where am I going to do this?" They're really rethinking it. Let's say that we have people on our team, that we really want to make sure and keep on our team, because they're great for the mission. Making sure and having those conversations, and not being afraid of which little birdies might fly away from the nest, and being confident enough in yourself, and in your change, and in your mission where you're at, to have those conversations. My guess is, you're going to either be able to help really care for the people that are burned out and hurting, or, really encouraged, and having an authentic connection with those people that really are trying to figure out what this new normal looks like for them.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah. That might be a little bit of a painful walk to walk, but the beauty that could come out of that would be so rewarding, and so life changing. Again, it's these foundations that you're building. "Why am I doing what I'm doing?" Because, when you know that...I've said many times, we've come, and we're part of a church, our organization, because of this mission. We have to be reminded of what that mission is. Marcus Buckingham says that people leave their work because of stress. It's just not meaningful, and they just don't love their job anymore. I think we have to find ways to counterbalance all of those things. I think a big piece of it is that mission, and understanding, "Why do we do what we do?"

Michael Buckingham:
And, reminding ourselves, "What if we're off course?" Maybe we've fallen away from the mission just a little bit. Whether that's in the personal life, whether that's from an organizational standpoint, and really getting right back on those tracks, and going, "Hey, you know what? This is more than just a job. We're doing something. We're creating something."

Michael Buckingham:
It's the stuff that you and I get to do. For me, coming into Vanderbloemen, I still love the church, and I still wanted to make an impact with the church. I'm so grateful that I get to help churches create their full teams. You get to help churches make their employees so much more happy, with benefits that they can actually use, and it doesn't strip all their bank accounts, or things of that sort.

John Staub:
Yeah.

Michael Buckingham:
Okay. Let me pause real quick. I would be mistaken, I think if I didn't say, "John, talk to us about insurance." Going forward, what are some changes? What are some landscapes things that we should be aware, speaking of change?

John Staub:
Sure. This is going to be one of those, "What" questions. Ultimately the "what" is going to be different for every single group, every single pastor that's trying to take care of their staff, every single executive director of a school that's taking care of their teachers. That said, just to get ultra practical, things cost more than they did last year.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
We've got to figure out a way that, as we are having those difficult conversations, the latest Barna research is showing that 38% of pastors are burned out, and planning on quitting. As you do have these conversations, four out of 10 on your staff are going to be verging on burnout. That's a whole other separate conversation from, the practical side, they've got to pay the bills.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
I know, just my kiddos getting older, they're eating more food. Not only does food cost more, I'm needing more resources to feed them.

Michael Buckingham:
It's just a reality, right?

John Staub:
Being able to have really clear conversations on, "Hey, what are we doing for our entire benefits package? Are we paying at a level that they need, and are there other ways we can maybe be smarter with our spend, to free up resources, to get them more money, and take care of them a little bit better? Can maybe we rethink what we're doing in a particular ministry event, or in a particular big budgeted item that has been good for many years." I think a lot of people are okay with a little bit of change to take care of each other. I guarantee you right now, if you step in front of your team, and you say, "Hey, we're going to trim back a little bit on some of our big events that we do, but we're going to give you guys some raises, and we're going to improve your benefits this year, because we just know you are one of the best parts of this mission."

John Staub:
You're going to really have a lot of loyal employees. They're not going to upset that they get to have a little smaller event. That's one of the things I specialize in, is helping people rethink new ways of doing things, still accomplishing taking care of them, protecting them, giving them the money that they need. Just, let's think of the Zoom way of doing this.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
Or, the Slack way. I don't know what you guys use, the G Suite way. We've all rethought a lot. Now's the time to rethink everything, when it comes to just these simple, business administrative how's.

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah. I think, there's the whole principle of short term loss for a longer term gain.

John Staub:
Yeah.

Michael Buckingham:
Even the short term loss of having some of the difficult conversations that we talked about. Even as you touched on it, the amount of burnout that is being highlighted. Again, it was happening, but now it's really out there, because people are going, "Man, is this okay? Is this going to be long lasting?" I think, one of those short term losses would be some of those difficult conversations that you might have to have. And, very honest, open, transparent conversations, saying, "Hey guys, I'm getting burned out. I think it's time for us to have a conversation of, what it looks like next time." I know that what's why we spend so much time with succession here at Vanderbloemen, because we want to help churches and organizations understand that, when you have your leader, how to help them step out well, and step out into something new.

Michael Buckingham:
You look at the told Tom Brady thing. Tom Brady leaves, and he comes back. I believe he came back because he didn't know what was next for him. If we as a staff can get around our leaders, and say, "Okay, let's talk about it. You're getting burned out. You're thinking of something new. Let's talk about that new, let's begin to build that platform, to help you step off onto it."

Michael Buckingham:
Andy Stanley talks about change, and that change always brings resistance. But, once you push through that resistance, it can bring so much growth, so much happiness. Again, like we said in the beginning, change is a reality. It's an inevitable thing that's going to happen. We have to learn to not just manage the change, but sometimes, just simply lean into it as well.

John Staub:
Yeah. Another great thinker, along with Andy Stanley...I have a phrase, "I believe all roads lead back to Andy Stanley." Pastor Craig Groeschel, he has a quote that I love, and he says, "People don't necessarily hate change, they hate how we're trying to change them." Which is why I like to, again, start with leading yourself, lead from the mission, and really make sure that you're having intentionality along the way. When it comes to what you can do, and particularly to the burnout, this is something that costs the organization nearly nothing, the idea of encouraging people to rest.

John Staub:
I just did an interview on mental health, and a huge positive trend on mental health days, with no stigma attached, of simply being able to say, "Hey, you got your sick days, and you got your mental health days."

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
It encourages people that it's okay to say, "You know what? I need to pause for a moment, and just rest."

Michael Buckingham:
Yeah.

John Staub:
And, if rest can become part of your culture, that will also be an incredible way to have healthy conversations of well rested employees that are all intentionally connected.

Michael Buckingham:
Isn't it funny, how we look at rest as almost, I don't know, a negative, or a weakness? But, God almighty rested, and told us to rest. It's definitely something I don't think we embrace well. It's not just about not working, but it's about resting. Being with yourself, understanding yourself, being in your environment, things of that sort, and truly resting. I think that's such an important thing.

John Staub:
I saw great wisdom in a Facebook meme the other day. I do not know-

Michael Buckingham:
Oh, way to go. Listen to the meme.

John Staub:
I've not researched who said it, whoever can find it out. But, it said this, and it stuck in my brain, and it's encouraged me to think through things. It said, "When rest feels like a sin, the likelihood is that your work could be an idol." For me, I very much overwork. I push myself so hard, but I'm working to stay in the same rest that God himself gave us the example. I think it's important to encourage our staff along these days and steps, outside of a very difficult two years together, to say, "Hey, let's keep resting together."

Michael Buckingham:
That's good. John, thank you for having this conversation. I'm so glad we reconnected again, and could stay connected, but that we decided, let's talk about this. This is just a real thing people are going through right now, and it's not going to disappear. All those people listening and watching, here's the thing: this isn't just a podcast, and a webcast, and things of that sort. We truly do this because we care about you, and we know you're going through some stuff. We're here to help. Please, if you're running into this change, and you just don't know how to push through it, you don't know how to lean into it, or you just don't know how to manage it. Please contact us. We'll have show notes down there, and lots of ways to connect to us. Or, if you need to look at, "Hey, I you're right. I do need to find different ways to take care for my employees."

Michael Buckingham:
John's information will be down there too, because we want to be here for you. We don't want to just talk with words, but we really want to put some action to that. Whatever we can do to be a support to you, and to be a help to you, we would absolutely love that. John, thank you so much. It was so good to see you.

John Staub:
Yeah, my pleasure. Always great time hanging out with you.

Michael Buckingham:
All right. Let's talk again soon.

John Staub:
Thanks.

Christa Reinhardt:
Thanks for listening to the Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast. We at Vanderbloemen help Christian organizations build their best teams through hiring, succession, compensation, and diversity consulting services. Visit our website, Vanderbloemen.com, to learn more, and subscribe to our Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, to keep up with our latest episodes. Thanks for listening.